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20 May 2013 @ 11:15 pm
Merlin-y Questions  
I find myself writing a post-finale fic for Merlin to clear up some loose ends, and I have a couple of questions about the theories I'm operating on. Opinions would be appreciated.

1) I'm assuming, because Merlin is not at Gwen's coronation, yet they know Arthur is dead, that Percival arrived at Avalon and Merlin told him what happened and he took the message home? Or are we suppose to believe that Gwen knew Arthur was dead instinctively, like she said she would? I'm assuming Percival was running like heck after Gwaine's death to try to intercept Morgana, so headed toward Merlin and Arthur and not toward Camelot.

2. If Gwen is now ruler of Camelot, and she and Arthur had no children (something I felt was very odd that no one commented on, considering they were married for, like, four years before he died) does that mean that any children she had with a different partner in the future would inherit the throne? I'm trying to work out the line of succession.

3) I would like Merlin to return to Camelot, does that seem reasonable? I know the ending would like us to think that Merlin is still out there watching over Arthur, but I don't see why he couldn't travel back and forth.
donutsweeperdonutsweeper on May 21st, 2013 03:57 am (UTC)
I've thought and thought about how Camelot finds out and it just never works in my head. I thought Kilgarrah flew Arthur and Merlin to Avalon, so then how would Percival track them? Morgana is dead, yes, but exactly what happens to Merlin and Arthur seems harder for him to discover.

I have not rewatched, I've no desire to put myself through that again, but he leaves Gwaine (I assume someone returns at some point to bury/make a pyre for him later) and goes off to where he knows Gwaine told Morgana that Arthur and Merlin would be and finds her dead- that wasn't the lake itself, was it? If Gwaine *had* known then the confrontation between Morgana and Merlin would have been there at the lake, not where it was.

Most fics I've read handwave all that and have Percival eventually come across Merlin at the lake's shore where he's told Arthur died and was buried in the lake. That makes vague sense.

As for #2... Queens by marriage usually can't pass on the throne so no, if she did not have children she might manage to keep the throne while alive (unlikely though) but if she married the new husband would be unlikely to get it. It's likely that there would be squabbling among the nobles as to who the rightful heir was, if not someone just outright trying to take it (Did Uther inherit it or take it by force, I don't remember)

3- Merlin might return. He certainly could, although not immediately (or he'd have been there at that final throne room scene)
The Writer They Call Tayawanderingbard on May 21st, 2013 04:13 am (UTC)
Oh, you're right, I forgot that the dragon flew them to the lake. But they were headed there anyway, iirc, to heal Arthur. He collapsed and died before he got there, but Gaius knew that's where they were going, and that's where Gwaine would have sent Morgana, I think. She just found them before they arrived.

I was thinking they'd have to be tracing through the genealogical lines to find the closest blood relative to Arthur. I'm not sure if Uther took the throne, so much as created Camelot and declared himself king. My impression is that he sort of tamed and organized the land, or maybe his father did. I wonder if Arthur would have left any sort of decree that Gwen be the ruler in her own stead? Morgana seemed pretty certain that Gwen would inherit when she enchanted her, but Morgana's concept of reality is distorted at best.

My story at the moment is basically 'we have lost half our men, there's no heir to the throne, and that servant guy who always saves the day is missing' and how they're working to rebuild. I wanted Merlin to go home to Ealdor for a bit, and ultimately decide to return to Camelot, but not right away.
donutsweeperdonutsweeper on May 21st, 2013 04:18 am (UTC)
I can see Arthur writing some decree like that. There is also the fact that all the knights (especially Leon the head/first knight) are ridiculously loyal to her so that could be used as a way of keeping her on the throne- the other lords and whatnot see she's very competent and has the support of the strongest fighting force around, even if it was decimated in the recent attacks.

I think your idea is entirely workable :)
The Writer They Call Tayawanderingbard on May 21st, 2013 04:37 am (UTC)
That's a good point about the knights. I do have Leon pretty much taking over everyone's duties in the wake of Arthur's death, because he seems like the sort of fellow who would run himself ragged to keep things together for Gwen.

Yay! I'm always glad when things make sense outside of my head. Thanks for letting me bounce ideas off you!
donutsweeperdonutsweeper on May 21st, 2013 04:51 am (UTC)
Always happy to help!

One thing from the finale I do remember was Leon was standing *right* next to Gwen on the dais. And Percival was in the place of honor in his own row right in front of her so the two of them were obviously in places of power/prestige and they definitely support her.
The Writer They Call Tayawanderingbard on May 21st, 2013 04:59 am (UTC)
Well Leon and Percival are the only two 'main' knights left, so I imagine they do have some prestige there. Also, Leon and Gwen knew each other as children, so they're probably closer than most, and it always seemed to me like he's appointed himself her own protector, in almost a courtly love sort of way on his part.

ETA: Courtly love isn't what I mean, but I can't think of the tem now, but you know, when you jousted in their name and took on quests for their honour, but not necessarily in an 'I love you way'.

Edited at 2013-05-21 05:02 am (UTC)
donutsweeperdonutsweeper on May 21st, 2013 05:02 am (UTC)
I also think that Leon, as an actual noble (and not commoner, like Percival) also would help provide a bit of legitimacy to her in a way as well.
The Writer They Call Tayawanderingbard on May 21st, 2013 05:09 am (UTC)
I kept forgetting that we know nothing about Percival. Mum and I were trying to figure out why Ghost!Uther was so pissed with him, and then I remembered he just showed up with Lancelot all 'hey, I'm really tall' and was probably a commoner. I often wonder if Lancelot and Percival hung out, or if Percival was just nearby when Lancelot got the summons to help Camleot and he went 'you, tall person, come be bare armed and strong with me' and Percival was too polite to say no.
donutsweeperdonutsweeper on May 21st, 2013 05:14 am (UTC)
Percival is my favorite in a lot of ways. We know next to nothing about him, true. Merlin mentions in 'Servant of Two Masters' that Percival's family had been killed by Cenred's men and it's implied that's why he joined up with Lancelot to help fight them (and then fight for Arthur).
The Writer They Call Tayawanderingbard on May 21st, 2013 01:02 pm (UTC)
Crap, I forgot about that, too. I was looking at knights from the legends to bring in to replace the fallen, and I was going to bring in one of Percival's brothers. I'll have to rewrite that, unless I somehow finagle it to say that one of them escaped, or was with Percival when the village was attacked. I don't know if the implication is that Percival wasn't there or that he managed to fend off the attackers and survive.
donutsweeperdonutsweeper on May 21st, 2013 06:19 pm (UTC)
He could have thought his brother was dead, I'd think that wouldn't be too difficult to work in.
The Writer They Call Tayawanderingbard on May 21st, 2013 09:15 pm (UTC)
I think I might make him the brother of a friend from the village. That would give me the brotherly feeling without going against canon.

Incidentally, I was trolling through the Merlin wiki to see what other named knights there were and it turns out they've killed half of the mythical Round Table members already.
donutsweeperdonutsweeper on May 21st, 2013 09:19 pm (UTC)
Yeah, they killed people off right and left, didn't they? *sigh*
The Writer They Call Tayawanderingbard on May 21st, 2013 09:30 pm (UTC)
They did! I was debating whether to use Geraint or Erec because they have the same story in myth and then I saw that they'd already killed Geraint, so Erec it is!
donutsweeperdonutsweeper on May 21st, 2013 09:32 pm (UTC)
Nice of them to make that decision for you then?
The Writer They Call Tayawanderingbard on May 21st, 2013 09:55 pm (UTC)
They've certainly limited my possibilities for me. They also killed Percival's father from the myths, Pellinore. So I think I can pretty much do what I want with the character and not be too off base in terms of deviating from myth.
donutsweeperdonutsweeper on May 21st, 2013 10:06 pm (UTC)
I think the show made a specific effort to deviate from the myths.
The Writer They Call Tay: MERLIN: Merlin finds you weirdawanderingbard on May 21st, 2013 11:42 pm (UTC)
Yes, they made that pretty clear the moment they made Gwen a servant. :-D My mum was so confused for the first few episodes we watched. She's read a lot of Arthurian myth-based stuff.
rodlox: ohanarodlox on May 23rd, 2013 05:37 am (UTC)
I think that is the word, actually - courtly love.
(i may be wrong - I've seen the term used for medieval things ranging from what you just described re jousting in another's name/honor, to anything short of actually having a covet affair at a royal court)
rodlox: bad merodlox on May 23rd, 2013 05:44 am (UTC)
chronologically, Merlin kinda takes place before we have to deal with (non)Salic Law, so Gwen could take the throne; though in terms of technology (swords, particularly), there's precedent as well: by the time those swords arose, I think England's had Queen Matilda, if not Elizabeth.

but that's assuming Gwen takes the throne with the overt intent to rule. she might have convinced the nobles that, "really, I am a widow, a regent"...and if her knights keep asking her advice on matters of ruling, that's not her fault. (or the scriptwriters will have the nobles say "okay, you can rule, but first sign this Magna Carta")

sorry, that didn't help.