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14 April 2015 @ 07:35 pm
Agent Carter Questions  
Hello, all! Welcome to another edition of 'over-thinking fandom stuff'!

I'm trying to hash out exactly how Edwin and Anna Jarvis got together. I thought I had a pretty good idea, but when I checked the Marvel Cinematic wiki, which is usually pretty on top of collecting all the canon in the 'verse, it didn't jive with how I remembered things. Then I looked again, and it had been edited and now seemed closer to what I had assumed. So, now I'm a little confused, and I'm wondering if anyone else has any thoughts on the matter. It's not terribly vital, but I keep dancing around it and I'd like to be able to be a little more solid when mentioning it in fic.

I've only seen each episode once and don't have access to watch them again at the moment, so I've had to work on memory alone.



To begin with, here are the things that I know for certain are canon:

- Jarvis was aide to a general stationed in Budapest before the war. I'm assuming he means an aide-de-camp, which seems to fit the sort of job Jarvis would be good at.
- He met Anna in a tailor's shop there. I'm assuming they began to court or maybe just became friends, but either way, Jarvis liked her a lot.
- The war broke out.
- Jarvis asked the general to get travel papers to allow Anna to get out of Hungary, due to her being Jewish putting her in danger. The general didn't agree, so Jarvis stole the papers and forged his signature.
- Jarvis was caught and court martialled and tried for treason.
- Howard Stark (who had met Jarvis in the past and liked him, and had some beef with the general) stepped in and did something Howard Stark-ish, and got Jarvis off for the treason. In return, Jarvis agreed to work for Howard.
- Jarvis was dishonourably discharged from the army, and he and Anna got married and came to New York (or possibly came to New York and got married)
- Jarvis had been working for Howard five years by the time Agent Carter begins, which is 1946. Presumably, then, Jarvis began working for him in 1941.

Here are the things I'm not sure about:

- When did the actual attempt to get Anna out take place? 1941 fits as the time, I believe, Hitler began to deport the Jews, so when it would have started to get more dangerous for Anna. However, if they met before the war, which started in 1938, did Jarvis elect to break things off when he left Budapest? It seems like if he was that in love with her, he would have married her and brought her with him when he left. My other thought is that they continued to court via letters, and the war broke out, so he couldn't get to her, and decided to act when he thought she was in danger. There's at least three years there where they weren't seeing each other.
- Or, did he decide to get her out earlier than 1941, and he just went to work for Howard in 1941?
- Did Jarvis go to Budapest himself to get Anna out or did he send the papers to her somehow? Or did he never have a chance to even try because he was caught before then? My impression is that Howard not only helped Jarvis get off the charges, but also somehow went in and got Anna out of Budapest (I had in mind some sort of daring, Howard Starkish flying in and whisking her out), but the wiki disagreed with me on that, and then sort of changed its mind and thought Howard did do something to ensure Anna's safety.

I'm aware that a lot of this stuff was never explicitly mentioned, but I just want to see if anyone else has any thoughts on the matter or remembers anything I've forgotten. My own, original idea for how things went down was something like:

Jarvis meets Anna in Budapest. He probably starts walking out with her. He gets moved, either through the General being stationed somewhere else, or because the war broke out. He and Anna keep in touch through letters until the war makes it impossible for mail to get through. He somehow hears about her being in danger, decides to act. He gets caught before he can get the papers to her. Howard comes in and sorts out things at the trial, and then goes and helps smuggle Anna out of Budapest. She and Jarvis get married, then everyone goes back to New York and Howard sets them up in the mansion.

Does that seem plausible?
 
 
 
formerly lifeinsomniacjoonscribble on April 15th, 2015 01:37 am (UTC)
Your summary of how you think things would have gone is pretty much identical to mine in terms of timeline and the players. My only added headcanon/thought was that when Howard first approached Jarvis about helping him out, Jarvis probably told Howard to prioritize getting Anna out and in fact, just do that. If he has to get hanged so that Anna could definitely make it out and be safe in the US, Jarvis would take that.

I picture Howard agreeing and then getting Anna out while also getting Jarvis pardoned and later telling Jarvis, "There's really no point in doing something like this if you're not around to be impressed."
The Writer They Call Tayawanderingbard on April 15th, 2015 02:32 am (UTC)
Jarvis probably told Howard to prioritize getting Anna out and in fact, just do that. If he has to get hanged so that Anna could definitely make it out and be safe in the US, Jarvis would take that.

Okay, yeah, that is definitely what happened. Because awww, Jarvis.

"There's really no point in doing something like this if you're not around to be impressed."

Haha! I have something in a bit of fic I was messing around with with Howard bringing Anna to Jarvis and being kind of disappointed that Jarvis is being all Jarvis about it, and they aren't, like, kissing while the music swells and the credits roll.

"If you aren't going to kiss her, I will."

I kind of wanted to write something with Jarvis' very early days working for Howard, because it occurred to me that Howard had probably never had any sort of servant before except maybe a cook and maid, and basically liked the idea of having a butler more than knowing what a butler actually does. There was probably a few days of awkward moments where Jarvis was like 'shall I help you dress, sir?' and Howard was like 'no...I...know how to dress myself...?'. And all the stuff Jarvis could do for him that he's discovering.

Howard: Man, I'm starving.
Jarvis: Shall I get you something to eat, sir?
Howard: You do that, too?
Jarvis: Yes, sir.
Howard: Swell. Get me a sandwich. This is going to save so much time in my day.


formerly lifeinsomniacjoonscribble on April 15th, 2015 02:45 am (UTC)
I imagine the first few weeks of Jarvis getting acclimated to Howard's lab and also Howard were stressful. I can also see Howard coming downstairs one day and finding his house so organized he's both impressed and annoyed that he can't find anything.

"Well, you have to dress me now. Where are all my socks?"

"In the sock drawer, sir."

"I have a sock drawer?"

"It's the drawer where I have put all your socks, yes."
The Writer They Call Tayawanderingbard on April 15th, 2015 03:00 am (UTC)
Oh God, yeah, getting used to the lab.

Howard: Okay, so don't touch that.
Jarvis: All right.
Howard: Or that.
Jarvis: Very well.
Howard: Or anything sort of over here...
Jarvis: You've gestured to the entire area, sir.
Howard: Yep.


"I have a sock drawer?"

"It's the drawer where I have put all your socks, yes."


Hee!

I'm actually picturing Jarvis having a sort of Blue Screen of Death at his initial exposure to Howard's mess.

Anna: Edwin, you are still awake?
Jarvis: Yes, I'm having trouble falling asleep.
Anna: Why is this?
Jarvis: None of his shoes are paired.
Anna: I'm sorry to hear that, Edwin, but it is midnight, I don't think Mr. Schtark would appreciate you coming to fix it now.
Jarvis: I could do it very quietly.
Anna: Go to sleep, Edwin.


formerly lifeinsomniacjoonscribble on April 15th, 2015 04:31 am (UTC)
Anna: I'm sorry to hear that, Edwin, but it is midnight, I don't think Mr. Schtark would appreciate you coming to fix it now.
Jarvis: I could do it very quietly.
Anna: Go to sleep, Edwin.


Heehee! I can totally see Jarvis starting to get out of bed before Anna pulls him back.

On a related but more daemon-ish note, I feel like this is what happens when Bucky and Shess drink too much.
The Writer They Call Tayawanderingbard on April 15th, 2015 04:49 am (UTC)
Heehee! I can totally see Jarvis starting to get out of bed before Anna pulls him back.

And Howard wakes up in the morning to find Jarvis chest deep in the closet, throwing shoes out so he can arrange them properly.

Howard: Can I help you?
Jarvis: No, I'm fine, thank you, sir.
Howard: Okay, then. *rolls over, goes back to sleep*

I think I'm going to need to just build an Anna Jarvis, because it's getting hard to write around her when she really should be there. I managed to create Haddie built entirely around two lines in the Agent Carter trailer, I should be able to make an Anna out of the two lines she said on the show, right?

I feel like this is what happens when Bucky and Shess drink too much.

Hehehe!

Shess: Do you what's great? Hay. Hay is great.
Issie: And this is why we never leave New York. Last time it was cows.
Shess: I love cows!

This is probably similar to how Issie and Steve work out.


formerly lifeinsomniacjoonscribble on April 15th, 2015 05:03 am (UTC)
I should be able to make an Anna out of the two lines she said on the show, right?

Are you kidding? With your skills, well honed over years of meticulously creating intricate backgrounds for OCs who get a one line mention in fics, having two lines to work with is a goldmine of character fodder!

Shess: Do you what's great? Hay. Hay is great.
Issie: And this is why we never leave New York. Last time it was cows.
Shess: I love cows!


Issie probably gets irritated every time Bucky and Shess fall asleep where they shouldn't. Post-serum Steve can drag Bucky but Issie still can't drag Shess.

Issie: Don't fall asleep. I still can't carry you anywhere.
Shess: No problem *falls down asleep in a shower of hay*
Issie: Dammit...
Steve: Grab that blanket. I'll just drag Bucky a little closer.
Issie: This is seriously the last time we leave New York.

This is probably similar to how Issie and Steve work out.

Aww! Man, that dog is cute.
The Writer They Call Tayawanderingbard on April 15th, 2015 05:16 am (UTC)
With your skills, well honed over years of meticulously creating intricate backgrounds for OCs who get a one line mention in fics, having two lines to work with is a goldmine of character fodder!

Aww, thanks. And, if you add in what we know from what Jarvis said, we're basically set. She's Hungarian, she's Jewish, she makes nice ties, and she thinks it's okay to leave breakfast dishes for awhile before you clean them. I can totally work with that.

Issie: This is seriously the last time we leave New York.

I'd like to think that Shess probably took home a very drunk, itty-bitty preserum Issie on a few occasions, because Steve was a total lightweight. Shess just lumbering along with Issie in her mouth, while Issie natters really happily about art.
formerly lifeinsomniacjoonscribble on April 17th, 2015 10:50 pm (UTC)
This to me is possibly Issie when Steve was a child and she hadn't fully settled yet. It's the ear. Since Steve was deaf in one ear, I feel like Issie might have reflected a bit of that when he was young.
The Writer They Call Tayawanderingbard on April 17th, 2015 11:54 pm (UTC)
Awww! Look at her trying so hard to hear things. She even looks sort of concerned like I picture Issie looking 80% of the time.

Here's baby Mim snoring.

I also kind of wish we had an owl daemon for someone, because clearly this is Dejeni and some friend on an intense S.H.I.E.L.D mission.

Edited at 2015-04-17 11:55 pm (UTC)
formerly lifeinsomniacjoonscribble on April 18th, 2015 12:45 am (UTC)
That snoring hummingbird is amazing!

I also kind of wish we had an owl daemon for someone, because clearly this is Dejeni and some friend on an intense S.H.I.E.L.D mission.

Maybe one a mission for SHIELD, Howard has to diffuse a bomb in some lab and this is the lab tech's daemon. Because the owl with its huge eyes looks WAY more concerned than Dejeni.
The Writer They Call Tayawanderingbard on April 18th, 2015 01:01 am (UTC)
Maybe one a mission for SHIELD, Howard has to diffuse a bomb in some lab and this is the lab tech's daemon. Because the owl with its huge eyes looks WAY more concerned than Dejeni.

Other Daemom: Are you making coffee?
Dejeni: Yeah, Howard's kind of busy right now.
Other Daemon: But...there's a bomb...
Dejeni: Is Joe hungry? Maybe we should get some sandwiches in here or something,
Other Daemon: He's disarming a bomb...?
Dejeni: So...what? You think steak instead, maybe? I wonder if Jarvis is still up, maybe he'd bring some goulash...
The Writer They Call Tayawanderingbard on April 22nd, 2015 02:36 am (UTC)
Delighted Otter
Delighted baby!Shess

And even though it's bigger than Altan, this is totally what I picture him behaving like when Tash is drunk.

Mim: That's...that a tree.
Nemi: Do you want to tell him?
Mim: Good point. Rock on, Altan! You own that tree, baby.

Edited at 2015-04-22 03:07 am (UTC)
formerly lifeinsomniacjoonscribble on April 22nd, 2015 04:04 pm (UTC)
Delighted animals are delighted! That first photo of the otter is amazing. It looks so proud to have this toy.

Mim: That's...that a tree.
Nemi: Do you want to tell him?
Mim: Good point. Rock on, Altan! You own that tree, baby.


Hahaha!!
The Writer They Call Tayawanderingbard on April 22nd, 2015 05:49 pm (UTC)
Whenever I see an otter holding on to something, they always looked thrilled with their existence. Otters love holding things, the way pandas love doing somersaults.

This is how I picture Hesperos and Haddie say hello, with Haddie being a bit smaller and Hesper bigger.

Also this remains my headcanon for Tomor and baby!Mim.

formerly lifeinsomniacjoonscribble on April 22nd, 2015 06:29 pm (UTC)
This is how I picture Hesperos and Haddie say hello, with Haddie being a bit smaller and Hesper bigger.

Awww! It's such a lovely image!

Also this remains my headcanon for Tomor and baby!Mim.

I love how the baby otter looks so confused as to why he's going backwards. "But I'm paddling! I'm supposed to go forwards!"
The Writer They Call Tayawanderingbard on April 22nd, 2015 06:38 pm (UTC)
Awww! It's such a lovely image!

I have an image of them in the middle of the living room when Jarvis and Anna are listening to the radio, with Hesper on Haddie's nose as she lies down with her head on her paws, and they talk about their days.

I love how the baby otter looks so confused as to why he's going backwards. "But I'm paddling! I'm supposed to go forwards!"

I just love that animal parents are just like human parents. "Okay, that's enough of that."
"Aww, Mom, just five more minutes!"

I also imagine Mim spent a lot of her youth being bewildered as she was pulled away from something she was doing.

Mim: I'm not done!
Haddie: I should hope not, Miss Demira, as you should have never started.
formerly lifeinsomniacjoonscribble on April 22nd, 2015 07:27 pm (UTC)
I also imagine Mim spent a lot of her youth being bewildered as she was pulled away from something she was doing.

This also feels like the theme for your Sherlock's childhood in the Trio 'verse.

"Okay, that's enough of that."
"Aww, Mom, just five more minutes!"


There's a great one of a bear trying to get her cub back to bed and having to push the cub around until he was at the best angle for her to pick him up by her jaws.
The Writer They Call Tayawanderingbard on April 22nd, 2015 07:52 pm (UTC)
This also feels like the theme for your Sherlock's childhood in the Trio 'verse.

Mim and Tzophiya would have gotten along great/hated each other. The ages actually put Mycroft and Tony within a year of each other though. It would be more Tony being a disdaining teenager as Sherlock runs around and breaks all his stuff. Though I feel like Tony would kind of dig baby!Q and try to teach him stuff.

I still kind of want to write a story where Siger has to go help crack an urgent code for S.H.I.E.L.D and he and Howard kind of bond over being uncertain parents to genius boys.


There's a great one of a bear trying to get her cub back to bed and having to push the cub around until he was at the best angle for her to pick him up by her jaws.

I remember seeing this hilarious video of a cat who adopted baby ducks, and just could not figure out how they kept getting out of the welping box because she seriously just put them back and all her other kittens were in there. And she just keeps picking them up and putting them back in, and the ducks just hop out again and wobbled away.

Also, lionesses always look 99% done with life at any given moment. "Fuck, I need a nanny."
formerly lifeinsomniacjoonscribble on April 22nd, 2015 09:00 pm (UTC)
Here's a visual aid of why Issie is never thrilled to Science with Dejeni.
The Writer They Call Tayawanderingbard on April 22nd, 2015 09:29 pm (UTC)
Ha! I can totally see this being right after Steve gets out of the pod when he first gets the serum, and Howard's got him half around the waist.

Dejeni: Did it work? You're still alive, that's good. Are you bigger? Let me see your teeth. Your teeth look the same. Do you feel different? How do you feel?
Issie: *muffled under Dejeni's paws* You don't have to yell, I can hear you.
Dejeni: I'm not yell--Howard, I think we fixed his hearing!
formerly lifeinsomniacjoonscribble on April 22nd, 2015 09:55 pm (UTC)
Heehee! I can see Dejeni eventually noting that Issie looks more or less the same while Steve completely changed.

Dejeni: You're about the same size. That's gotta sting.

Issie: *glares*
The Writer They Call Tayawanderingbard on April 22nd, 2015 10:50 pm (UTC)
Hee! Aww, poor Issie. I can picture Dejeni being a bit disappointed that Issie didn't change very much because Issie was sort of her part of the project and it didn't turn out as cool as Howard's part.

Takeo: She doesn't have to change, she's fine as she is.
Dejeni: Okay, well, good for her, but...c'mon, not even an inch?!

Did we ever give Erskine a daemon, by the way? I feel like he'd have something small and furry, like a mouse or a rat or something.
formerly lifeinsomniacjoonscribble on April 22nd, 2015 10:53 pm (UTC)
Did we ever give Erskine a daemon, by the way? I feel like he'd have something small and furry, like a mouse or a rat or something.

I don't think we ever did. I've been eager to give someone a red panda as a daemon because red pandas are adorable and amazing. But I don't think their behavior fits Erskine. I agree that something small that could do precision work for Erskine would be best.
The Writer They Call Tayawanderingbard on April 22nd, 2015 11:28 pm (UTC)
Red pandas are my list of cool daemon options, too. Along with klipspringers and chevrotains. Every time I see an animal I didn't know existed before, I add it to my list of things that would work for daemons. A partial albino robin moved into our neighbourhood last week and I'd never seen one before, and I discovered you can have totally albino robins, and that went on my list, too. Because pretty and different.

I agree that something small that could do precision work for Erskine would be best.

I shall put my daemon hat on, because this is clearly an issue that needs to be solved.

ETA as cliche as it is, a brown rat seems to be the most appropriate choice. Aside from the science associations, they are also good problem solvers, learn and make decisions based on experience, and show altruism, like stopping to free fellow rats and sharing food with them. I'm going to call her Ruya which means 'sight/vision'. She can share the scientist-hero-inspiring category of Super Minor Character daemons with Janan, Yinsen's marmoset.


Edited at 2015-04-23 01:52 am (UTC)
formerly lifeinsomniacjoonscribble on April 25th, 2015 02:46 pm (UTC)
Ooh! I like it! I can see her sitting comfortably on Erskine's shoulder while he talks to pre-serum Steve about staying just exactly who he is.
The Writer They Call Tayawanderingbard on April 25th, 2015 02:52 pm (UTC)
Ooh! I like it! I can see her sitting comfortably on Erskine's shoulder while he talks to pre-serum Steve about staying just exactly who he is.

That was the scene I was matching to when I was looking for animals, and what would fit Erskine physically for that moment. I can also see Ruya gently warning Issie that she might change form, but that she hoped she still guided Steve in the same way she has so far.

Issie: Maybe I'll be a lion...
Ruya: I hope you stay just as you are.
Issie: But bigger, though, right?
Ruya: Perhaps a bit bigger.