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23 June 2013 @ 11:49 am
Avengers Question  
Does anyone know for sure, or at least almost sure, what year Captain America was frozen? I've seen 1941, 1943, and 1945, and I don't know which, if any is accurate.

(I have the most random plot bunny, like completely out of nowhere. I am so confused by my brain.)
 
 
 
donutsweeperdonutsweeper on June 23rd, 2013 04:42 pm (UTC)
If you're talking the movie I'm 99% sure it's 1944/5 The newspaper articles of him saving the kid (the day he becomes "big") is June something 1943 (I tracked down the screencap at some point) and I think the article of him saving Bucky and the rest of the 107th was November of that year.

Official Marvel timeline

http://marvel.com/news/story/18766/view_the_full_marvel_cinematic_universe_timeline

Unoffical ones:
wiki: http://marvelcinematicuniverse.wikia.com/wiki/Timeline

Unoffical timetime
http://www.tiki-toki.com/timeline/entry/5395/A-Marvel-Cinematic-Universe-Timeline/#vars!date=0774-05-10_08:54:15!

I have some issues with these unofficial ones- I've seen the movie a million times and I have no recollection of an actual date given to the crash of the plane or Howard finding the Tesseract - from the footnotes it looks like they're using mostly movie data but combining it with comic dates when the movies didn't specify something.

ALSO- the official one uses the "I am Iron Man" speech as the main data point, which is Oct 2010 according to the other timelines so that would mean Captain America crashed 1944 (which is more my mental timeline of the crash happening closer to when Bucky died and also a little while longer before the war ended then the unoffical timeline claims, but that's just me)
The Writer They Call Tayawanderingbard on June 23rd, 2013 08:10 pm (UTC)
Thank you for a very thorough answer. I've only seen the CA movie once, it's the only one I don't own (of course). I'm always leery to take tie-ins as canon. The Sherlock blog for John that the BBC set up makes no sense when taken in conjunction with the source material. And the official casebook isn't a whole lot better. I'm sure that the comics would take more care, but it's still several people working on one project.

I wonder why they had to change Steve's birth year? He's born in 1922 in the comics, and 1918 in the movie. Unless the comics retconned that at some point, wouldn't the events of both happen at the same time? You can't change the years of the war.
donutsweeperdonutsweeper on June 23rd, 2013 08:20 pm (UTC)
The change of the birth year surprised me as well. My assumption was Chris Evans (as "big" Steve) did not, in any real way, look 21/22 but could be taken to be 25/26.

Mutlisourcing canon annoys me. Movies=/= comic books =/= novelizations =/= director's ideas on the character, etc, etc, etc.

Movie canon is definitely that his birthday was 4 Jul 1918, the transformation was June 1943. Everything else is not specified in canon.

Do you need a link to rewatch the movie via less-than-legal means? I know I've seen them around.
The Writer They Call Tayawanderingbard on June 23rd, 2013 10:03 pm (UTC)
I feel exactly the same. The world of fanfiction shows exactly how much a character can change when someone else writes him or her. Or look at the different interpretations even between the three writers on Sherlock. Or how wildly Tony DiNozzo was characterized between single episodes. Even if you have the same source material or a general outline, things will depend on the writer. And it's basically the same as a prompt--give three different writers the same prompt, you'll get three different stories.

I think I'm good, thanks! The story is set in the present, but I needed to know if Steve would have been alive when certain movies were released. I have The Avengers to fall back on, and I can go through screencaps of CA for details and memory jogging. I've added it to my zip list, so they should be sending me a copy soon.
donutsweeperdonutsweeper on June 23rd, 2013 10:13 pm (UTC)
So very, very true. :)

If you'd like someone to bounce ideas off of or need a beta or anything, just let me know! I'm also pretty familiar with NYC (even Steve's era of NYC since my dad's parents were both born right about then in Brooklyn).
The Writer They Call Tayawanderingbard on June 24th, 2013 12:26 am (UTC)
Oh, cool! I may end up taking you up on your offer.

The main plot of the story is that Tony has a Big Plan to modernize Steve by showing him the movies he's missed since he was frozen, so he can get a crash course on how times have changed in chronological order. Steve is going to see one at a classic movie theatre on his own, and runs into an old lady of just younger than his vintage, and hits it off with her. That's all I have so far. It's basically fluff, but I wanted to make sure I knew when Cap was frozen so I knew which movies he might have seen or what stars he might have known.
donutsweeperdonutsweeper on June 24th, 2013 12:35 am (UTC)
Aww, that sounds cute. :)
The Writer They Call Tayawanderingbard on June 24th, 2013 12:43 am (UTC)
Thanks! I have no clue where it came from except that I was watching 'Singin' in the Rain' a few nights ago. Completely unrelated, but that's what Steve's going to see.

I know Steve is an orphan, is Bucky one as well, do you know? I'm trying to find a suitable adult figure Steve could mention as the reason he kept a handkerchief on him. 'My father always did' doesn't work. I was wondering if he would have known Bucky's parents. I'd like it to only be half a lie, if you know what I mean.

donutsweeperdonutsweeper on June 24th, 2013 12:51 am (UTC)
If you're talking movie canon, Bucky's history is completely up to you- other than the fact he and Steve have known each other a while. Steve is an orphan- his died died a result of mustard gas in WWI (unclear where this was and if it was instant or happened years later) and his mother died after presumedly getting TB from her nursing and working a TB floor.

Fanon has either Bucky and Steve meeting in an orphanage or Bucky's mom semi-adopting Steve because they lived in the same building and everyone felt sorry for how rough Steve and his mom had it. It's totally up to you with how you write it.

FYI- here's a resource that might be helpful.

http://grey-bard.livejournal.com/121412.html
The Writer They Call Tayawanderingbard on June 24th, 2013 12:56 am (UTC)
Awesome! Thank you!

The tie-in comics apparently have Steve's dad dying before he was born, and his mum dying when he was six, but you and I have already discussed our feelings on tie-ins.
donutsweeperdonutsweeper on June 24th, 2013 01:08 am (UTC)
There is?

I hadn't seen that, the one I have seen is a comic that show his dad as a drunk who beat his mom (there's this panel set that shows up on tumblr a lot about him asking why she just doesn't stay down when she gets hit and she responds that you always get up, remember that Stevie, you always get up)

There are SO many canons though. MCU (the movies), the main comic verse (called 616), Ultimates!verse, Ultron!verse, House of M verse, random reboots and rewrites and and and.... *sigh*
The Writer They Call Tayawanderingbard on June 24th, 2013 01:13 am (UTC)
The specific movie tie-ins have that plotline, apparently. These ones.

Part of the reason I've never been able to get into comic books is all the various histories and AUs. It's daunting.
donutsweeperdonutsweeper on June 24th, 2013 01:22 am (UTC)
Ah, I don't think I've seen those.

AGES ago I read comics. There wasn't a lot of retconning/rewriting back then (late 80s-90s) and definitely less alternative verses. Some are great.

If you do have any interest in comics a lot of libraries have the "Marvel Masterworks" that put together the first 10 or 20 issues of a lot of the more popular titles, it's really interesting read them. (They are *very* 60s in their sensibilities though, just as an FYI)
The Writer They Call Tayawanderingbard on June 24th, 2013 01:28 am (UTC)
I used to mod an X-Men RPG that was movie 'verse but brought in a lot of comic book characters, and I did a lot of research for that, but my general knowledge is more advanced than my specific knowledge. I often had to take on random characters that other people needed.

My brother has a metric ton of comics from when he collected when he was younger, and I've paged through them, as well. I had them all in neat order (it took days) and then my dad shuffled them all up again and I haven't had the energy to do it again.
donutsweeperdonutsweeper on June 24th, 2013 01:33 am (UTC)
Those might be worth some money, depending on the title and condition. Oh dear though, mucked up order is such an annoyance sometimes!
The Writer They Call Tayawanderingbard on June 24th, 2013 01:37 am (UTC)
Yes, that's why I was putting them in order, to what we had! And Dad got frustrated and stuffed them away again. He did the same when I organized our photos, too. >:/
donutsweeperdonutsweeper on June 24th, 2013 01:39 am (UTC)
Oh grumblekins.
donutsweeperdonutsweeper on June 27th, 2013 09:03 pm (UTC)
Just came across this:
http://25.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_m75bzn8Q971r6mt8go1_500.png

The New York Examiner (a made up paper) Wednesday, June 23, 1943. Thought it might help. :)